Max Verstappen, Red Bull, Baku City Circuit, 2017

‘Verstappen was the standout driver of 2017’ – Hakkinen

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In the round-up: Two-times world champion Mika Hakkinen names Max Verstappen as the standout driver of 2017.

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Shouldn’t Formula One be driving the future of the car, whatever that might be?

I’m still sceptic on the the future of the automobile if I’m honest. I don’t buy into the electric cars being the best solution, they just seem a step back. Therefore an all electric Formula 1 doesn’t feel right for me (and no, it isn’t because of the sound).

The PSA [Peugeot Citroen] Group boss has its doubts too. And if we analyse carefully, while most brands have their plans for all-electric cars they are all concepts at the moment. Volvo for example say that from 2019 on all their cars will have electric engines, albeit they haven’t yet launched a single hybrid.

I’m sorry but it doesn’t convince me. Of course looking at the trends, most likely, I’m wrong.

But what annoys me the most about this subject and Formula 1, is that in the past Formula 1 used to drive innovation without trying to be road relevant, things just eventually scaled down. But now with this non-sense that it has to use technology from road cars it just follows innovation.

Maybe if teams were allowed to properly research into the matter, we could have all electric engines out-performing combustion engines (while carrying energy is harder than carrying fuel), that would convince doubters like me, or alternative forms of fuel, like hydrogen or synthetic petrol.

The F1 rule book made F1 enter a period similar to the dark ages, where innovation was scarce, a shame really for the pinnacle of motorsport.
Joao (@Johnmilk)

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  • 68 comments on “‘Verstappen was the standout driver of 2017’ – Hakkinen”

    1. Saying electric cars are a step back is really shallow and uninformed. Step back compared to what? Internal combustion engine which had over a century of development? If electric cars are already this close, imagine where electric engine will be 100 years from now, given an all out development from the smallest shop, all the way to the biggest car manufacturers.

      1. @Biggsy +1.

      2. Electric motors have been in existence almost for the same time as IC engines. Its just that in last 20-30 years battery technology has improved to the point that they can be used in cars for commuting good amount(100kms<) of distance.

      3. If electric cars are already this close…

        You do agree, they are a step back?

        Historically tech as evolved and when it goes through a revolution ot makes giant steps forward. Do you feel that is happening in the car industry? I don’t.

        Cam you imagine what would happen to the aeronautical industry if they were to go through a phase like this?

        1. And yet it’s highly likely that precisely the aeronautical industry will have to take a step back in that regard within the next decade.
          Uh… Things are weird sometimes.

          But yeah, electric cars are a step back, not to mention way less fun to drive. I think in comparison to an F1 engine it’s not that big of a deal, but shifting gears in a proper road car and blipping the throttle and controlling the clutch on the downshifts (and the brakes, depending on the car), and power curves and all that, that’s a lot of fun that electric motors will only be capable of replicating if they are engineered to simulate all of that.

      4. Mark in Florida
        1st January 2018, 1:53

        Electric cars have their place, in a golf cart maybe. Formula One shouldn’t be about saving the world it’s about being fast and exciting. If a race series doesn’t stir your soul then why watch it? If F1 becomes a meaningless exercise in technical gymnastics all for the sake of “me too”. Then F1 is going to die on the funeral pyre of fans that don’t care anymore. F1 has to forge it’s own path regardless of what the “real world” is doing . The real world should aspire to mimic F1, not the other way around. Whether that path is a new type of ice or a combination like we have now F1 should shock and astound the world not worry about relevance. Make your own relevance F1.

    2. Best comment of the day in some time, in my opinion, even if hydrogen, too, is a silly alternative fuel source since its byproducts are both heat and water – two things this particular planet currently do not need more of.

      Biggsy seems to forget the first cars were electric; the technology isn’t new. And the technology being used in F1 is already developed for road cars and WEC, which F1 has adapted, rather than innovated and invented itself like it did for so many other road car innovations when it truly was the pinnacle of design and motorsport rather than the sports entertainment we have in the Pirelli Rainbow era.

      1. What, exactly, do you think that F1 has “innovated” on? When you look into it, F1 has rarely innovated on anything, and usually taken concepts that existed in other industries and adapted them to their own use.

      2. “hydrogen, too, is a silly alternative fuel source since its byproducts are both heat and water – two things this particular planet currently do not need more of.”
        -Above commenter is completely wrong here:

        1. The hydrogen used for hydrogen fuel cells is most like to be made from electrolysis separation of water, so the overall amount of water will remain the same.
        2. While the energy product from the combustion of hydrogen is heat, in hydrogen fuel cells the majority of the energy released is electricity, with only a small amount of heat. Even if this wasn’t the case hydrogen fuel would still realise no more heat than the combustion of petrol, while not being a limited resource and not producing a greenhouse gas.

        1. Exactly, jonzza
          And the original comment is even more ignorant. Our planet and its inhabitants do need water; a lot of it.
          Rising sea levels are not the result of more water, it’s the result of melting ice caps (frozen water) and expanding sea water due to temperature increases.

          I would not be surprised if the original commenter has his Don Quixote fight against global warming by asking facebooks friends to leave the fridge door open ;)

    3. Electric motors are around 2-21/2 times as efficient as a petrol engine and are much cheaper to produce. they produce 100% of their power from 1 rev, are much more reliable because of so many fewer moving parts.
      But powering them is a problem still to be properly addressed, temperatures are a big factor in their operation if they are reliant on batteries. Also the production of the batteries does involve some pretty dodgy mining practices at the moment.

      1. Nice COTD @johnmilk and nice points @johnrkh

      2. @johnrkh in the real world your second paragraph matters much more than the first, hence my feeling about the matter

      3. @johnrkh
        The two major issues facing electric cars are battery production materials and power infrastructure. Considering our country can barely cope with everyone turning their kettle on when they get home from work I dread to think what will happen when several million people plug their cars into fast chargers, and planning for more power stations keeps getting pushed back. That’s before you get into the issue of where all these charging points are going to go, not everyone gets to park in a garage or right outside their house.

        That’s not to say electric cars don’t have a place in the future (and combustion probably doesn’t), but it seems premature to put all our eggs in this basket when there’s no plan, guarantee or timetable for these issues to be resolved.

        1. If only we could produce electricity by splitting/fusing atoms ;)

          1. OK, full disclosure I didn’t know much about this other than the EDF contracts for new builds hit a snag a couple of years ago, but here’s some information from wikipedia which is hopefully accurate:

            In the UK we currently have eight nuclear power plants, the last of which came on line in 1995. Since then eight older power plants have been decommissioned, with five of the current eight slated to be decommissioned in the 2020’s. Granted the older plants have lower outputs, but presumably energy use is increasing significantly too, so they’ve likely just maintained a status quo with energy surplus.

            On 26 March 2013, the government published a Nuclear Industrial Strategy which in part stated that the nuclear industry had plans for about 16 GWe of new nuclear power stations by 2030, which is at least 12 new nuclear reactors at five sites.

            From The World Nuclear Association:

            In October 2015 the Royal Academy of Engineering (RAE) published a report entitled A Critical Time for UK Energy Policy – which details the actions needed now to create a secure and affordable low-carbon energy system for 2030 and beyond. It said that a fundamental restructuring of the whole energy system is needed if the UK is to meet the so-called energy ‘trilemma’ of affordability, security and decarbonisation and that “time is rapidly running out to make the crucial planning decisions and secure investment” to ensure the UK has a secure energy system which meets its emissions targets. “As a secure, base-load source of low-carbon electricity, nuclear power is essential,” and anything much less than 15 GWe by 2030 would be a concern.

            Now bear in mind it’s generally taken around eight years from start of construction to connecting a new station to the national grid, that means to meet this target they need to begin building twelve power stations within the next four years. Does that seem likely to you, with a government tightly controlling it’s purse strings?

            Finally here’s the national grid’s predictions on the effect of electric cars:

            Different scenarios concerning electric vehicles increase peak demand by 6 GWe, 11 GWe or 18 GWe by 2050 depending on when the majority are charged, and assuming 7 kW charging (30 amps).

            UK generating capacity at the end of 2016 was 78.3 GWe (68.4 GWe with grid access), comprising 16.7 GWe conventional steam, 31.8 GWe CCGT, 9.5 GWe nuclear, 16.2 GWe wind (gross), 11.9 solar (gross), 4.3 GWe hydro including pumped storage, 5.7 GWe bioenergy and wastes. Peak demand in 2016 was 52.9 GWe.

            So, the generating capacity of all the nuclear stations in the UK combined last year likely wouldn’t cover the predicted load of electric car charging in the future, and that’s assuming current home charging speeds.

            So while I was wrong, there is a plan to resolve at least this one issue, it doesn’t seem like a very well thought out one, and very little of it has actually been put in place yet. It’s not as simple as ‘dude, you know they can make electricity out of, like, nothing, right?’.

            1. I’m a bit late, but well done to you @george for doing the research. We need more posts like this one.

          2. Er……no!

        2. @george Had to chuckle at your ‘everyone turning on their kettle’ comment. Are you from Ontario here in Canada where I am? Lol.

          I think you have hit on the key issues for sure. There is the issue of supply of materials such as cobalt, the ‘dodgy’ side of that being the behaviour going on in the Republic of Congo to mine it, let alone global availability in general of it. Some companies are already considering moving away from cobalt toward nickel due to already known concerns over cobalt. And electric cars are really just still in their relative infancy yet materials for batteries are already a contentious issue. There’s also the disposal of them.

          The other thing as you have pointed out is the infrastructure to handle more and more electric vehicles. Not long ago I heard a pundit say that if we all suddenly had to have electric vehicles (not that that is about to happen) charging stations would have to be the size of shopping mall parking lots. I think as you correctly point out electric vehicles have their place, and will improve, but they are not without their own environmental footprint, and are not as ‘around the corner’ as some make it seem, at least in the numbers people seem to think.

          I see for quite a while yet more and more work going into the hybrid solution where more and more efficient ICE’s recharging on board batteries for electric motors that do the majority but not necessarily all of the propulsion. They have much more work to do on batteries that aren’t so environmentally and socially damaging to make and dispose of, with much better battery life.

    4. No. Max didn’t even beat his teammate. To be the best you need to be fast AND take care of your car.

      1. He did beat his teammate by most metrics. Read Keiths teammate comparison article.

        1. Indeed, taking care of the car has nothing to do with verstappen, the only reason he’s behind is cause he retired due to mechanical issues (out of his fault) from the front of ricciardo.

      2. And you’re the expert and a double WCD driver like Hakkinen does’t know what he is talking about.
        Okay so no we all have to agree with you, the “expert”.

      3. Elaborate.. define beating.

        I guess your only argument is pointrelated.. And of course quali , wins, performance on track do not count ;)

    5. The future of F1 goes through Max. He is posied to get a seat in the best of cars whether they are red or silver or even another color. The current duo of greatness will run their course and waiting in the wings is you know who. Multiple championships await this talent and he will become the benchmark that others will be competing to be like Max. But none of it will happen while the King of England and the King of Germany hang around.

      1. Don’t think vettel is even the king of germany, that would be schumacher!

    6. I wonder if Max’s starts will continue to be like they were this year, particularly if their car is stronger.

      To me, at times, I thought he was a bit reckless causing some of the others to take evasive action because they had a WDC to look after whereas Max didn’t and had nothing to lose.

      If he’s in a position to challenge for the WDC, we may see a lot less of him making big gains at the start and a lot less of him risking overheating etc by following closely behind the car in front for lap after lap.

      1. I think that is a very good point. I think a lot of his overtakes over his career have been very good, but he has very often had to rely on other drivers giving him space. Everybody praised his overtake on Ericsson in China 2015 when I think Ericsson had all the right to do keep doing what he did and he suddenly had to jolt left to allow Verstappen through. That could have gone horribly wrong and I think it will have been Verstappen to blame if it did as he did lunge down the inside. And sometimes, his overtakes or defending sometimes do go wrong such as in Hungary and Italy. I think Ricciardo has just been a bit more cautious than he needed to be this year. I think he has got the pace to match Verstappen. But I don’t know what has happened in qualifying. But Ricciardo’s overtakes seem more solid to me. They virtually never go wrong and many do think he is about the best overtaker on the grid. If Red Bull is stronger next year, I think these two will be more closely matched. But I somehow don’t think Renault will suddenly become as reliable as Mercedes and Ferrari the following year. I expect reliability to let them down again a fair bit unfortunately. But what engine will they have in 2019? They won’t have Renault. I can’t see Ferrari or Mercedes wanting a car as good as that using their engine. So I see it quite possibly being Honda. And what would that be like? If this is the case, hopefully a year out of the sport will have allowed Honda to get things right and make it as quick and reliable as the other engines.

          1. @thegianthogweed I think the way you have described Max with his ‘I’m coming through’ mentality is exactly what separates him from the others and why he lead DR in all categories but points. I think he was very aggressive this season yet much more refined, much less ragged, than 2016. And I think that has been by design. He’s been out there testing the limits of the regs and then refining that to become a pit bull out there that the other drivers are already wary of, which is absolutely perfect for him to have done. He’s an intimidating force already at such a young age still, so yeah I think he has many wins and Championships ahead of him.

            I think what we saw in 2017 was Max fighting with the top guys much more than DR who on average qualified lower down the grid which gave him opportunities to appear as a great passer, last of the late brakers or what have you, but that’s half to do with who he was passing, ie. lesser cars, and half to do with desperation to not be lagging behind Max so much. Not to say DR isn’t also a highly capable driver, but he’s no Max.

            1. Spot on Robbie! You just formulated the theory I have been on for a more than a year. Verstappen has been putting his elbows out now that he has nothing to lose yet. When (next year?) he has a car that can compete with the MB and Ferrari, the other drivers will think twice about shutting the door.

              The big question is: how will Verstappen cope with the pressure when he gets that good a car? I have the feeling in 2017 he made some (small) mistakes under pressure (hitting Ricciardo for example). On the other hand, he is still very young and has plenty of time to grow. And even Vettel (and – to a lesser extent – Hamilton) showed some mistakes under pressure the past few years.

            2. @genty I just have this feeling that pressure will not be an issue for Max, and rather, in a good car, he’ll spend more time out front. He just seems to ooze that belonging out front kind or aura to me. I don’t envision he had much pressure in 2017 and was rather just out there racing, knowing it was not going to be for the WDC. Hitting DR? Certainly not intentional and when DR called him a sore loser that couldn’t stand the thought of him passing him, I thought yup…sounds like a WDC to me. I think Max simply overcooked it on cold-ish tires, trying to keep, in that case DR, behind him. That’s how he rolls.

            3. Just to add though I do agree and always have looked for how drivers do when the pressure is at it’s greatest, as a final test of their ‘worthiness’ if you will for WDC material. And with Max, and of course without knowing 100% for sure, for how could any of us until it happens, I just can’t see Max caving. He just seems too born to do this. To me anyway. Too sure of what he is doing. Too determined. I feel like once he’s in the higher pressure situations, he’ll feel more at home.

            4. @Robbie
              Pure conjecture on your part – including the DR incident.
              Only time will tell..

        1. @thegianthogweed, in the example that you bring up with Verstappen and Ericsson, I half suspect that, as Verstappen is a much more popular driver, there would have been those seeking to shift the blame onto Ericsson for a collision even if Verstappen was the one who caused it. I’m also not sure where you have read that Honda will be spending a year out of the sport either, since they’re still there and supplying Toro Rosso.

          Power and reliability are certainly areas that both Honda and Renault have struggled with to some extent, and in the case of Honda it sounds as if there may be a few slight concerns in the early part of 2018 due to the late switch from Renault to Honda by Toro Rosso. I would expect that both Renault and Honda will improve somewhat, but that Renault will still lag behind Ferrari and Mercedes and bit and Honda will, in turn, also be lagging slightly further behind all of the other manufacturers.

          With regards to 2019, although Red Bull are, I believe, out of contract with Renault, I wouldn’t completely rule out the possibility of them stretching the contract out to 2020 if Renault still look like a stronger option than Honda. The relationship between Renault and Red Bull has been difficult in recent years, but I think it is possible that they would find a way to accommodate Renault if they had to, though probably they might have to accept less favourable terms than they have had in the past.

        2. @Ben,
          Some try to reason why Ver got short on points, it’s no more than having an unreliable car… Ricciardo often picked up those points while his car was as dodgy as Ver was… he often stopped on track during FP… Ver more often in races.

          Ver style, often refered to as elbows out style may be a bit risky, but he hasn’t suffered from more troubles than Ricciardo… who just got away quite lucky on many ocassions.
          Ricciard may come out cleaner, but doesn’t mean he was flawless, in fact less flawless than Ver was… fe. his crashes in Aus and Baku, sliding into the wall at Mon, going off track in GB (losing many positions), first lap incident with Gro in GE and firsl lap incident in Abu… out of this list of 6 incidents 5 where Ric fault… he did not always suffer from damage, but that was more down to luck than wisdome.

          This elbows out style resulted in many position gained at the starts, while Ric often lost positions… thoough people may not see eye to eye, losing positions at the starts will never result in winning a title, same goes for losing out on quali this bad.

          None of the drivers are flawless, Ver often gets the suggestion he shuld mature a bit more, but at age 20 his overall rated as 2nd best driver and most certainly a lot more mature than drivers like Vettel… and so many others.

          1. Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
            3rd January 2018, 21:20

            You call touching a wall and causing no damage an incident? That is surely a bit too far? And I don’t get why you seem to conclude these things are Ricciardo’s fault. Especially the incidents on the first lap involving other drivers. The rules stated that if there was one driver predominantly to blame, they would get punished. He hasn’t collected any penalties or penalty points this year. The only other two drivers on the entire grid who have stayed away from these are Ocon and Bottas. And where are you even seeing what happened in Abu Dhabi? He didn’t touch anyone on that lap.

            If you are pointing out such minor errors or moments of contact involving Ricciardo, the list could be endless for Verstappen.

            He took a risk in Spain. That incident won’t have happened if he didn’t try to overtake two cars on the inside. I still think it was just a racing incident though. With no drivers being mainly to blame.

            He had contact with Vettel in Canada. Not his fault, but if what he did caused him a puncture (which it could have), I don’t think it would have been anything more than a racing incident.

            He had contact with Kvyat in Austria. Not his fault in the slightest.

            He knocked his team mate out of the race in Hungary. I’d say the worst thing either of the 2 drivers have done last year year.

            He had contact in Italy, twice. One time hitting Massa. This to me was unnecessary as Massa had the right to do exactly what he did and Verstappen should have been aware that he could have done this. He could have waited until a much easier place. And as he was the one who suffered and Massa had no damage and there was no penalty given, it is quite likely Verstappen will have been the one they thought was to blame, but he gave himself his own penalty. Ricciardo hasn’t ruined his own race result this way in any race. Verstappen later on overtook Grosjean at the same corner he attempted to get past Massa. He overtook Grosjeen and clipped Grosjean’s front wing with his rear right tyre. Again taking a risk that could easily have given him a puncture. At that point, some of Grosjean’s front wing broke off.

            In Singapore, the first contact wasn’t Verstappen’s fault in the slightest, however, I think he could possibly have backed off a little to avoid the 2nd contact which I thought he may predict would happen. Still, I don’t really know how badly the car had been damaged in the first contact so perhaps this is a bit much for me to say.

            In Mexico, his end result was brilliant, but when he overtook Hamilton, he clipped Hamilton’s front wing with his left rear tyre. This incredibly often results in a puncture and he was very lucky it didn’t. But Mercedes replaced Hamilton’s front wing due to this and it was because of Verstappen not Vettel. But it wasn’t a big problem and I think they only did it because he had to pit.

            Several of these are not Verstappens fault. I think it is Ricciardo who has kept things more clean on the whole. But I can respect your opinion with one or two of your points. I do think Ricciardo took a risk in Britain. Magnussen was harsh, but then he did what was within the rules, like what Massa did on Verstappen in Italy. He also has indeed been poor in qualifying twice. But qualifying isn’t where you score points. In Australia, Ricciardo will have almost certainly been 6th. Verstappen was around 25 seconds behind the leader and the next driver behind Verstappen was Massa. Massa was about 50 seconds behind Verstappen. I just don’t see how Ricciardo won’t have got a very reasonable result even though he crashed in qualifying. Then in Baku, although he had a bit of luck, he got the best result possible. Mistakes in qualifying just are not as costly as mistakes in the race.

      2. You ( and some below) seem to forget Max is already a WC with a lot of experience in fighting for a championship. His driving style did not change under that pressure and of course the title is somewhat bigger now, but the stress related influences are the same.
        Of course some times you just have to finisch to collect the points. But for now Max is obviously the best F1 has to offer to it’s spectators.

    7. Btw, happy new year Keith. Thanks for the great shots at the GPs especially. See you in a few months..
      But now that I’m here…..
      Mika said it very clever = ”he is very exciting to watch”.
      I think he is stimulating the trend to tear off the last ethics of the sport. RBR scolding their only WDC-partner, Horner having one of the biggest privateers in history and just starting to imitate Ferrari with sneaky tactics, like investigations, calling boycotts, firing up fans against logic, crashing into your teammate, ignoring team orders and retiring laps later. Basically becoming the Kyle Busch without the fighting (oh hey Jos). Not a coincidence that if fits well with the Global Nascar vision.
      But as they say in Germany, these words are spoken into the wind. So on to the facts;
      The most heard argument are these;

      1.” He showed great potential in the races he retired from.”
      — Renault actively pressured them to not develop the MGU-units after they screwed up their development yet again with an already 4 time WDC-partner – Renault knows what they’re talking about – which shows very poor management from Newey and the factory, but horner just threatened to leave along with Toro-Rosso for Honda, not expecting Honda’s performance drop. So Horner was stuck, Renault discovered it and just said ”no more big upgrades for you nagger” – they even tried to lure Riccardo away (this is btw the reason he didn’t sign this year) – he went pushing the ICE and MGU anyway till the point the car just shut off all electrical units as in Canada. Verstappen was told that. That’s proven on film. He agreed. Both are at fault. Renault has nothing to do with probably 70% of those sudden shutdowns.

      2.” He won two races on merit, with great composure/lead”
      If Kimi battery dies out of his own luck (as explained with full details by multiple sources), Vettel gets screwed even harder and Hamilton having a WDC to win, that’s not merit. Mexico… there was never a race for it. Vettel was just completely focused on Hamilton in that first lap.
      Verstappen’s maiden win = that was merit. That was fantastic.

      3 ”Remember this overtake or the team said it as well, or this pundit coming from an era where F1 wasn’t run by big money so he needs money now said it (not meaning Mika).”
      To answer Mika: It was Hamilton. And his season wasn’t even that great. The only thing he did that exceptionally well was get under the skin of Vettel. That and the fact he kept calm with Bottas in the beginning. People seem to forget the dumb immature mistakes Max made in the season as well. From Hungary to going three wide Barcelona with the most wide cars of the century. He’s already 3 years into the sport, he should be getting more composed already. It’s not like he’s Kimi. Kimi only had 23 open wheel-races when he started. He already won the E-F3 in ’14.

      This is happening; Dutch people are relatively rich, a new market with two grade 2 circuits, a fanatic fan share that will fill half of the strands of 40% of the calender (they’ll even go to Sochi in those numbers), a popular TV-panel on pay-tv, it looks like there is no other rich market as hooked already as the Dutch, as all the big stars hit their fan cap, the FI guys will never win a GP in that car and Alonso is ”cursed”… so in the following months you will see a lot of Max hyping just because it will help sales.

      1. What a lot of BS but i wish you a happy new year and a great new F1 season.

      2. That’s not even a dreaming.. that’s pure fiction based on fake news ( like the Renault shutdown fable) and strange interpretations of wins on merit. But let’s see next season. I guess your fairytale will end soon ;)

      3. You have a vivid imagination

    8. People who promote equality turn out to be the most intolerant person nowadays. They’re the one who likely hurting someone who happen to be not inline with their narrative. Every single ‘incorrect’ action deserved to be bullied to death apparently.
      And I’m not even like Hamilton. #sad

      1. tgu (@thegrapeunwashed)
        30th December 2017, 8:49

        @ruliemaulana well said. It’s seems pretty puritanical to suggest Lewis should quit social media because of a mistake for which he immediately apologised – it’s like one mistake damns someone for life nowadays. Social media brings out the lynch mob mentality.

        1. Michael Brown (@)
          31st December 2017, 1:28

          @thegrapeunwashed Puritanical is the perfect word for it. Nobody is perfect, but if they’re trying to be a good person, then that’s good enough.

          Yesterday a commenter here said that political correctness gone mad is a silly phrase. When it goes mad, it becomes puritanical.

          1. tgu (@thegrapeunwashed)
            31st December 2017, 9:16

            @mbr-9 I really do think he behaved badly, after all he’s spent a lot of his career refusing to conform and instead cut a very individualistic path through the sport; if the Hamilton brand is anything, it’s about breaking the mould. So lampooning the kid was not just very insensitive, it was a betrayal of his own values.

            But then of course he apologised – immediately and fulsomely. But that doesn’t seem to be enough for some people, who seem to believe that, having made a mistake in public, one should withdraw from public life. We ought to be more honest with ourselves: we all make mistakes from time to time, it’s how we respond that’s important.

      2. @ruliemaulana, and yet your conduct, which is to then attack others yourself, is not exactly setting a great example either.

        1. I don’t understand, but if I ever hurt your feeling, I apologized, okay?

          1. Re-read your first ‘big brush’ sentence ;)

            If only people could be more tollerant of opposing views (including I).

          2. @ruliemaulana, I think that you misunderstand the point that I was trying to make – that in your post, you criticise others for exhibiting the same behaviour that you yourself have also exhibited.

            1. Michael Brown (@)
              31st December 2017, 1:29

              So? That isn’t a refutation.

      3. It only matters if you care about Hamilton’s ‘brand’. I couldn’t give a toss, he’ll still be here next year. This is one of the reasons I prefer Vettel, he may act like a baby sometimes but at least his focus is on the sport.

        Engaging the media is a choice. No doubt it’s helped Hamilton’s bank balance, it might have even helped his career, but on the other side if you put your private life on display you also have to deal with public scrutiny of it.

      4. Michael Brown (@)
        31st December 2017, 1:31


        Every single ‘incorrect’ action deserved to be bullied to death apparently.

        Possibly literally, in the case of August Ames’s death a few weeks ago.

        1. @mbr-9 I google it right away. And wow, I thought I was being hyperbole.

    9. Well maybe @johnmilk has no Volvo hybrids in his country, but the Volvo has a hybrid option for nearly every model in the uk, and most of Western Europe.
      The V60 hybrid is on sale for 3 years…

      1. @leventebandi yes my mistake there, I was corrected yesterday too. I still stand by my pov on the full electric car

    10. I am always interested to here the opinions of most F1 drivers and former drivers. Mika Hakkinen was always a class act, the one driver that Michael Schumacher respected on the grid, he speaks a lot of sense. He doesn’t bad mouth people and put them down like some of the others do such as Villeneuve for example.
      I agree about the grid penalties problem, but one the whole next year looks to be positive. My only concern is the halo devices, and how they will work under true racing conditions. I am still not convinced that they are a good way forward for the sport, time will tell.

      1. @The Limit +1.

    11. VES’s a great racer but his passing and blocking techniques are overly aggressive and downright reckless at times.

      He is arrogant, no doubt partly due to his father’s influence and believing all the hype he receives. Threatening to leave Red Bull this year when things went south (a few engine failures beyond RB’s control) shows immaturity, especially after all RB did for him!

      It may be argued Ocon had as good if not better performance than VES with a lesser car. Next year may be more telling. But at this point he has some good races (Mexico) and some dreadful ones (taking out RIC in Hungary). He needs to be more consistent.

      1. I think you’re overblowing that ‘leave’ threat, and all it really was, was temporary frustration from dnf’s while in meaty points positions in some races. After all, it didn’t take too long after that for him to approach the team for a longer term extension to his contract and get it. He was probably more frustrated with Renault than with RBR.

        I would have agreed more with your ‘overly aggressive’ and ‘downright reckless at times’ comments if you were talking about his 2016 season, but I thought last year (2017) there were few issues that other drivers had with him and that his driving was still aggressive but in a more controlled way, contact with DR aside.

        1. “He was probably more frustrated with Renault than with RBR.”
          A valid point but imagine how he (and dad) would have fared if they would have been with McHonda the last 3 years. I think much worse than Alonso.
          I still feel he has some growing up to do both in and out of the car.
          His father is definitely impeding his progress. I hope he can overcome it.

          1. Well…he’s not at McHonda, and FA is a seasoned veteran in a unique place in F1 history right now given his talent vs lack of good ride and options, especially with how Honda’s lagging behind has surprised everyone. No point imagining something unrelatable to Max’s situation. But sure he may, and likely does, have growing to do like many drivers, and I couldn’t disagree more with your thinking that his dad is impeding him or that he needs to overcome anything. I think Max is progressing beautifully and is a special driver and I’m sure his Dad deserves much credit for that.

    12. I read that ‘arrogant’ claim a lot here. Do you care to explain where it comes from because I don’t see it. The way I see it, even at the worst, it’s still no worse than the other drivers..

      1. I think it just depends on the person and whether or not Max is their cup of tea. I don’t consider him arrogant but rather very very confident and mature beyond his years. But he has done and said some things that I can see being considered arrogant, like insulting the steward for penalizing his move inside Kimi, the same steward that has allegedly picked on him before, or like denying his breaking of the ‘Verstappen rule’ was any big deal. In interviews he can be very direct and to the point, doesn’t get baited by questions, and to me he just oozes of someone unafraid of anyone on the track and ready to take them all on in a ‘get out of my way or get your wing run over’ kind of way, but this past season more refined than the year before. I think he’s ultra-exciting and I’m so glad he’s in F1.

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