FIA delays announcement on F1 teams’ finances and rejects “baseless” leak claims

2022 F1 season

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The FIA will not confirm whether all 10 Formula 1 teams adhered to its 2021 budget cap until next week.

The governing body of motorsport had indicated it would reveal on Wednesday which teams would be certified as having complied with the $145 million spending limit which was introduced last year.

However in a statement it confirmed no news will be communicated until after this weekend’s Japanese Grand Prix.

“The FIA informs that the conclusion of the analysis of the 2021 financial submissions of the Formula 1 teams and the subsequent release of Certificates of Compliance to the Financial Regulations will not take place on Wednesday, 5th October,” it announced.

“The analysis of financial submissions is a long and complex process that is ongoing and will be concluded to enable the release of the Certificates on Monday, 10th October.”

F1 introduced its Financial Regulations last year. It required teams to keep their spending within a prescribed limit, excluding certain items such as the salaries of drivers and top team staff. The FIA has taken over six months to analyse the data submitted by teams on their 2021 spending.

Ahead of the Singapore Grand Prix speculation mounted that two teams, widely reported to be Red Bull and Aston Martin, would be found to have broken the regulations. The FIA today reiterated that “there has been significant and unsubstantiated speculation and conjecture in relation to this matter, and the FIA reiterates that until it is finalised, no further information will be provided”.

It also firmly dismissed claims information regarding the teams’ submissions had been leaked. “Any suggestion that FIA personnel have disclosed sensitive information is equally baseless,” the FIA added.

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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93 comments on “FIA delays announcement on F1 teams’ finances and rejects “baseless” leak claims”

  1. Does anyone else think that is just being done not to embarrass Red Bull prior to the home race of their engine manufacturer?? Or is that just the skeptic in me?

    1. Well if Verstappen becomes world champion on Sunday and no one’s talking about it anymore on Monday it’s also kinda rain on their parade.

      1. If he doesn’t then we might expect another delay then ?

    2. No, that’s tinfoil hat level sort of numbskullery. To think that FIA is more concerned about protecting a specific team than protecting their own integrity and legitimacy. Between Toto’s wild slanders and Helmut Marko implying that if Toto knows something it would mean a leak happened, FIA had to speak out.

      In other sports there are hefty fines for slandering other teams/players or undermining the referee. I hope we get some of that in F1. Maybe then Toto will shut the hell up and let his stewing over 2021 happen in private, and maybe Marko and Horner will stop responding to his tantrums. I’m sick of their garbage filling up news headlines

      1. Constantijn Blondel
        5th October 2022, 16:38

        @ajpennypacker amen to that!

      2. @ajpennypacker

        In other sports there are hefty fines for slandering other teams/players or undermining the referee.

        I know, it’s honestly surprised the Red Bull Corporation havent been bankrupted by Horner and Marko!

          1. Marvin … ? Is that you.?
            We’ve been looking all over the Galaxy for you.

      3. Coventry Climax
        6th October 2022, 1:48

        Agree.
        One thing the FIA could and should have done though, when they introduced the cap, was to also set up a clear way and sufficient personnel to check on all the teams spendings, AND communicate about it, INCLUDING announcing exactly when the results would be published.
        Again, doing only half the job leads to speculation from all sides.
        Again, this sounds like ‘will be investigated after the race’.

      4. To be fair, I don’t think Toto has said a lot to be honest. He has just responded to questions that he was asked regarding an article that was already in the public domain…

        Ferrari have already (as far as I remember) questioned how RB could have developed some of their parts within the cost cap before that article was published. There is some suspicion that they have either found a loophole in the cost cap formula or they have tried to hide development within other companies that they own. We will soon find out I suppose.

        I they have stayed genuinely within the limits then good for them, if they have not then there should be serious punishments otherwise the whole cost cap is a farce.

    3. Ya this sketchy as hell.

      Not to mention what league on the planet does thier “salary cap” a year after thr championship has been handed out.

      They are delaying for some back door deals for sure.

    4. @kev-f1 – I don’t think so. I think the FIA have just made a really stupid decision to announce the results to the teams and the public at the same time. After an audit (specially one as complex as this), there is always some back and forth before the report can be finalised. There could be mistakes, misunderstandings, differences in interpretation and so on. These have to get resolved before you can public the results publicly.

      They should have said they’ll share the draft results with the teams individually today and will make it public in November.

      1. It sounds like they have been back and forth with Red Bull at least for the past 6 months… so they know exactly where everything is at about now. This is the end of the process, not half way through.

        1. @davidhunter13 I think you are right, the process had to be like you described…and more about it, I believe Bed Bull’s “then disappeared new chassis” has been shut down during this whole 2021 spending review process, maybe the way they reported some type of costs wasn’t complying FIA rules…just speculating…

      2. @petebaldwin as noted by davidhunter13, the teams were required to submit their accounts for the period up to the 31st December 2021 by the 31st March of this year. Bear in mind that deadline of the 31st March 2022 is for the the final submission to the FIA, because all of the teams were required to provide an interim statement to the FIA by the 30th June 2021 for the period covering January to April 2021.

        This is therefore not a case of the FIA “issuing draft results” – as davidhunter13 points out, this is the formal conclusion of the entire auditing process. The FIA also can’t follow your proposal to “share the draft results with the teams individually today and will make it public in November” – the FIA’s Cost Cap Administration is required to publish the results of their analysis publicly at the same time as part of the commitments that Sulayem has made for increasing transparency into the FIA’s operations.

      3. I rather think that the issue has very little to do with any last minute clarifications @petebaldwin. IF that were to be the case, we have to assume that there are some VERY serious issues with the results for some of the teams to draw it out this late – see also what “anon” mentions about the whole slog of the process.

        I think it is far more likely that this was indeed a decision made by the FIA to avoid the certificate thing disrupting a racing weekend that is quite likely to see a championship decided. Presenting the results this week would all but guarantee that it would become a huge focus (even more than last weekend) for all media, teams etc. So instead the FIA publishes it when the whole grid and media are in the middle of their return trips, limiting the coverage.

        That doesn’t mean that they will present finding any team overspending in a minor or even major way – If they do the teams found out would surely make massive attacks on the process and accuse their rivals of pressuring the FIA. And If they do NOT find any, or only very minor breaches, those rivals will accuse the FIA of a cover-up. So either way, there IS going to be a lot of back and forth over this.
        Also, once the certificates are clear, there will be discussion over penalties. Something the FIA would surely want to avoid muddling up the joy of a championship decider too.

    5. Does anyone else think that is just being done not to embarrass Red Bull prior to the home race of their engine manufacturer?? Or is that just the skeptic in me?

      Your sceptic seems to have a leak, and it’s arrived at me :)

      Seriously, though, I have a problem with this…
      I have plenty of beer available, but there’s no way the popcorn will last the extra week.

      “Any suggestion that FIA personnel have disclosed sensitive information is equally baseless”

      Not denying the content, just insisting that it wasn’t FIA personnel that leaked it to the media.

      Definitely need more popcorn

    6. Or alternatively the two alleged teams are still going back and forth with Lawyers and accountants towards FIA.

    7. You’re not thinking forward, Mr @kev-f1: What if Redbull scores a 1-2 in Japan, Max clinches the WDC and Redbull is near enough to also take the WCC? If the FIA sanctions them for 2021 the budget cap, how are they going to make sure RBR goes to the remaining grand prix? I guess RBR can save quite big by not showing up. Or what if RBR decides to only show up with a skeleton crew and 2 cars?

      1. I guess there are no rules against showing up with a minimum crew at some races. The teams are probably not allowed to not show up at all.

        1. They were, at least back in the days of Marussia, HRT, and Forti before them.

  2. Someone needs to replace the FIA, they are a laughing stock

  3. So someone leaks/doesn’t leak info from within the FIA, certain people around the F1 paddock were confident enough in some of the allegations to go on the record with their opinions about them, and then the FIA decides at the last minute that they don’t want to publish their report on the planned day…

    Hmmmm…

    Who wants to bet the FIA made a right old mess of the figures, got casual with gossip when there are people with longstanding links to the teams all around the office, and are rapidly re-calculating so that nobody ends up in court?

    1. Very likely scenario

    2. No, that seems silly. More likely they don’t want trouble, because they do not have a good way to deal with a team winning the WDC twice in a row, and the WCC this year, potentially both for next year too who also ‘slightly’ went over the cap (or even way over … which would in a way be easier, bc. they’d know they will get a strong reaction, potentially veto from Ferrari even?).

      The default way for the FIA has been to be pretty harsh on midfield teams in the race, but weak/accommodating in face of threatened exits from teams (due to money or feeling of strength, ie. Ferrari and Red Bull both threatened to walk before, and Merc. hinted at ‘considering’ it after 2021), so I’d say the institutional inclination is to have a secretive deal about it, but since other teams hinted that can’t work in the face of these relatively new cap rules and the potential for them to also consider work arounds, they probably need time to think of other options.

  4. The coverup begins.

  5. They’re damned now if they did or didn’t. Now, even if they didn’t do anything, people will call it a fix. Which is ridiculous given as of writing this there’s quite literally zero proof they’ve done anything.

    1. @rocketpanda Exactly. FIA can’t win from this situation. Either they publish it now and get accused of bowing down to Toto or publish it on Monday and get accused of bowing down to Horner (even though it is highly likely neither of them are directly involved in this mess).

      I just hope this delay means the FIA uses this time wisely and are making sure everything they’ve got is 100% accurate so that they’re able to publish accurate figures and certificates.

      1. RandomMallard,
        TBH, this is typical FIA and you can see it in all their processes. They tend to overcomplicate things and find solutions to non existent problems. It was expected by the FIA own statement that an announcement will take place today. The reports by la Gazzetta Dello Sport and AMuS about RBR and AM having exceeded the budget cap broke in Thursday 29th and Friday the 30th September and then a chain reaction took place with Toto and Binotto adding fuel to the fire.

        If the FIA were certain about making an announcement in Wednesday then they should have been already ready a week prior to that announcement given the fact that they were busy working on the Singapore GP weekend. Another thing is that Mohammed Ben Sulayem didn’t go to Singapore which also indicates that something isn’t quite right.

        1. Well put @tifoso1989, it’s a typical FIA problem of their own making, and to fix (which explains this vehement statement, bc. they are embarrassed, which is just about the worst feeling the organization knows).

      2. How would publishing the report on the day it was supposed to be published be bowing down to Toto?

    2. Toto: mission accomplished

  6. BLS (@brightlampshade)
    5th October 2022, 16:30

    Wonder if Red Bull have threatened to walk of anything happens, and Merc and/or Ferrari have threatened to walk if nothing happens.

    Only thing for certain is that something is certainly up. FIA have a problem and a half on their plate now. Good luck.

    1. I’d think Ferrari might start with vetoing a weak action ‘for the good of the sport’ @brightlampshade, if they can wrt. the budget cap (though otherwise they might well mention they will bring in their veto in other issues now, having lost faith in the FIA’s capability to fairly and justly govern the sport?).

  7. Well, that’s my evening celebration ruined. I’d bought a cake shaped like Verstappen at the FIA awards ceremony accepting his Mickey Mouse trophy, I’d made a jelly, bought some Tunnock’s teacakes, some Fox’s Party Rings, Twiglets, the whole shebang…. and now I have to wait until next week for Red Bull’s shameful demise? Honestly!!!

  8. So if the claims are “baseless” why not announce today that all teams were within the cap?

    1. Because the FIA don’t have numbers that they’re willing to defend in court.

    2. Because they have not finalized their work yet.

    3. Christian Horner called it a ‘leak’, not ‘a rumour’ nor ‘baseless’. If it was a leak it must have reflected true information the FIA had at the time, even if it was not ther final position. So that is Christian Horner’s stated position.

      After a week’s consideration the FIA call it ‘unsubstantiated speculation’, thus avoiding committing themselves to the truth of the information one way or another. That is their current position.

      1. In another article I saw this morning, it is reported that the FIA calculated on invalid figures and had to correct it as RB numbers included in their submission included $ that should not have been in the CAP from 2021 development.
        Apparently (Rumour) RB were over the cap by around a $120 000. which is minimal and carries a financial penalty only (According to the rules), but again this is the rumour mill at work.

  9. Andy (@andyfromsandy)
    5th October 2022, 16:34

    This is perhaps to make sure there is no screaming and shouting this weekend from any of the teams.

    Leave it until the 10th and then it will be a further almost two weeks before CoTA.

  10. The FIA has the opportunity to set the tone regarding budget cap regulations. If any team goes over they should be disqualified for the previous and current constructors championship. Set the precedent early and enforce it.

  11. Not a good look for the hosts to have their name all over the car that’s cheated its way to the last two championships.

  12. Any suggestion that FIA personnel have disclosed sensitive information is equally baseless

    I guess that means the other nine ownership groups must have sent their uncertified submissions to Toto themselves.

    1. And to all the other team bosses, as well as to some media. Its not a Toto thing, but RBR reacted to rumors of ‘some team having significantly overspent’. Marco confirmed that there are differences in their opinion of what is deemed as within or outside thw cost cap. Thats what its about, no sense to try making something different out of it.

  13. Usual amateur hour from the the fia….

  14. I’m getting deja vu here with all the Flexi floor vibes. It will be really satisfying if RedBull haven’t went over budget, I just wonder what Toto and all the Merc trolls will cry about next.

    1. It certainly has the characteristics of a cunning PR plan from Toto again. I think FIA will be fed up with him by now. Probably, since Ferrari also said so, they are in an ongoing process and since the regulations are new there is no clear cut calibration between teams and FIA yet. Now Toto puts them on the spot calling out like it is already all done and clear some are in breach. Whilst, basically they are still in talks with the teams. But Toto already has got what he wants. If FIA says all is good, the air around RedBull and FIA will stay blurry.

      1. Unclear regulations from the FIA? Who’d have thought?

      2. You again changing the narrative. FIA knows Verstappen win the championship this weekend and don’t want a huge fan uproar that he won it illegitimately again.

      3. Mayrton,

        The dreadful stench wafting from Formula One and the FIA is getting even stronger!

  15. They have only aggravated the situation with this delay. The conspiracy theorists (me included) are going flat out at the moment. 3, 2, 1…boom !

  16. In my view, this confirms that the rumors regarding RedBull being over the cap are correct. If they were under the cap (or if just Aston Martin was over) they would have released the certifications, deflated the rumors and sent any whining by Mercedes or Ferrari into the tin foil hat club.

    This will play out in one of two ways. The most probable is that Red Bull gets a slap on the wrist for a minor violation that will set a precedent for minor violations without saying anything about major violations above 5% of the cap.
    The second way is that Red Bull has a significant penalty for last year or next and they don’t want this looming over the weekend. It would look really bad if Max becomes a 2 time WC on sunday and a 1 time WC on monday. I dont think this will happen which is why I think the first scenario is more probable.

    1. Or, we dont let ourselves drawn in by some PR talks and realise that the process is simply not finalised and teams are still in talks about their submissions within a highly new set of regulations with which no one has prior experience

    2. @undercut677 following your thinking, 2 possible reasons for the delay:
      1) cap violation figures are already defined…they are struggling to define a proper punishment for those who are involved, so they take even more time to ponder it.
      2) FIA don’t want to take the attention away from Japan Grand Prix and damage the show with non track involved talking, just looking back at Singapore GP.
      In regards of FIA’s statement “the analysis of financial submissions is a long and complex process that is ongoing”, I believe it had to be easier than what they say since most of F1 team are well below the cap…it took time to review submissions which were lacking of some elements and needed clarifications…

      1. The problem is that it may well be quite complex. What if RB have offloaded some development to Alpha Tauri? What if they somehow offloaded development into other businesses under the RB umbrella? Toto said himself that they have a partnership with Team Ineos Americas cup team and they theoretically could do development there that feeds into their F1 car. He said the FIA are aware of this and have procedures in place to prevent it (Mercedes have had to submit all sorts of information regarding their financial investments in that business). However those processes are likely to be complex and also potentially open to abuse. There is also the potential for creative accounting which can take ages to go through. However the FIA have had quite a long time to get this sorted.

  17. Incident involving Cars 11 (PER) and 33 (VER) will be investigated after…the FIA can be bothered to come up with a decent answer.

  18. It does all seem slightly suspicious but I am not quite sure why. The obvious simple answer is that they don’t want this issue overshadowing the Japan GP weekend. Because whatever the FIA came out with, it will be talked about and pored over endlessly.

    The more cynical explanation might be that they know that Max will become WDC and it might be this weekend. Maybe they want to give Red Bull another chance to secure this years WDC before doing anything which might affect the outcome of last years?

    1. @phil-f1-21

      I disagree that whatever the FIA would come out with would have created a mess. If the FIA had come out with a clean bill of health for all teams (especially Red Bull), then the conspiracy theories of the other teams and fans would be just that. The FIA has already said those were all rumors so showing the those rumors were wrong does not create many problems.

      The problem is that some of those rumors are not wrong.

      1. @undercut677 I agree that the FIA decision delay does seem to indicate that some team has violated the budget cap even if only in a minor way.

        1. I just see them finalising an ongoing process that encountered unrealistic expectations when it would be finished because a team boss decided to start shouting before FIA got a chance to finalise their talks with the teams. Ferrari said so as well. It is a new set of regulations and the calibration between the teams and the FIA is not finalised yet.

          1. There were rumours before “a team boss decided to start shouting”… They (not just one, several people were speaking or, in your words, “shouting” about it) were most likely responding to the rumours.

            But don’t let any of that get in the way of your biases… It was all just one team boss, all their fault.

    2. Andy (@andyfromsandy)
      5th October 2022, 17:36

      On the basis it seems the stewards are investigating events after races which allows a penalty to not affect the result that could cynically well be the truth.

  19. Just publish the results, this makes it look very suspicious.

  20. Good grief. Even if they aren’t trying to bury the results, delaying them after they said they would be released today just gives ammunition to people who are looking for conspiracies. Way to make a mess of this entire situation, FIA. Now the cloud will be hanging over the whole weekend. Again. Toto and Horner will send nasty messages to each other through the press. Again. Speculation on teams who violated the cap and by how much will run rampant. Again. Recriminations against the FIA for potentially leaking information will run through the paddock. Again. And if Max wins the championship on Sunday, any findings of Red Bull exceeding the cap will instantly result in weeks of chatter about tainted championships until the circus can distract everyone again in Texas. What an absolute mess.

    1. The FIA is blatantly trying to overshadow the Ferrari strategy team with this brilliant call!

      1. I think it’s the other way around: Ferrari have learned their tactical skills from the FIA.

  21. What if it’s the way Merc had they accounts done that is who is over the budget cap? Didn’t Toto say once that they only count parts that are put on the car? What about those they don’t? And the R&D time involved in those they don’t that morph into those they do? Are they supposed to count that time?

    Really there enough holes in the regs that like the technical directives they are open to interpretation and maybe the FIA didn’t think of one way and after going to whichever team it is they explained it under their understanding and the FIA have had to rethink. IF it’s this watch for news regs or clarifications for next year.

    One thing is for sure. Delaying it means there is news to put F1 in the news cycle on an off week to keep us all click happy to see what’s happening….

    Lastly. I still find it Funny how righteous Ferrari are being.. It wasn’t too long ago there was a secret agreement about a certain 2019 engine…..

    1. Andy (@andyfromsandy)
      5th October 2022, 17:45

      The consequence with a loophole in the cost cap is not that it may have been found and used but that it has happened now for 2 seasons and not 1. So assuming that it would of given any team a good leg up.

  22. This is just the nature of financial audits. When it became apparent that today was the day the teams would find out the results, a delay was always likely. There is always some back and forth after an audit where people argue their case and things have to be redone. The fact that they are only delaying until Monday tells me there is nothing particularly serious that’s been found.

  23. Every time something happens in an FIA championship that requires strong leadership and decisive action they put it off, to a less embarrassing time for them.

    Investigation after a session/race.
    Delayed announcement, secret agreements.
    The stewards backing the race director in the face of a black and white rule book in a championship deciding race.
    And so on and so on, over many many years.

    Just be transparent, and apply your own rules swiftly and consistently – is that really so much to ask? Anything else makes all these things look dodgy.

    1. strong leadership and decisive action

      One cannot ‘strong leadership’ or ‘decisively act’ oneself out of an accounting dispute.

      Showing “strong leadership and decisive action” may get you sued, though.

    2. This sounds too much like they are trying to reach an agreement with a team or teams like they did with Ferrari over fuel flow. Really hoping they don’t do that again!

  24. The delay cannot mean anything good.

    Either they are still in ‘negotiation’ about which costs to deem within the costcap (where there is nothing to negotiate), or they are discussing which penalties to apply. With everyone watching there is no way to get away with some undercover deal.

  25. “A ‘dry run’ has been proposed for 2020, with teams invited to open their accounts for examination in the same way that they will from ’21, but without any regulatory requirements.” – source: Autosport

    For this reason it seems unlikely to me that there could still exist some major difference in the interpretation of the budget cap.These should/would have been addressed after this testing period. If the disagreements did not exist in the dry-run period, and Red Bull only invented their own interpretation for the first season when the regulation required it, then such approach should be considered as circumvention to the rules and punished.

    With regards to the punishments, I have done a quick search and found an article from May 2021, which cites Autosport claims that three teams (Red Bull, Alpha Tauri and Ferrari) voted against imposing sporting penalties for budget cap breaches and ergo only financial penalties will be considered for these breaches. Does anybody know if that debate between the teams evolved further during 2021? Did teams really agree just on financial penalties and swept away the sporting penalties?

    1. If they did then that would completely defeat the purpose of a budget cap!

      Coming down from the 700m budgets of a couple of years ago to the budget cap level + fines would still be a massive saving.

  26. Hamish Macdonald
    5th October 2022, 19:44

    This is a sport famous / infamous for engineers finding any gap possible in the rules to exploit to gain advantage on the track.
    Why would we expect any difference in the finances they report against a budget cap limit ?
    That means every principle will say they submitted within the cap. The audit of that submission will be a tough task, anyone who has done even very small projects will appreciate that.

  27. Count me in as a conspiracy theorist.
    Eventually the “truth” will be announced, at least F1’s version of it. My guess is that the announcement will be something along the lines of, the cap rules are new, 1 team interpreted them one way, the other teams interpreted the rules differently than the 1 team, but all the same. We’re going to clarify the rules. Nothing to see here, move along.

    1. Yes, like ‘The Race Director and 1 team interpreted the rules one way, 9 teams and most fans interpreted them another differently, so we’ll clarify that the 9 teams were right but no correction of the result is needed’.

  28. I’m glad they delayed it; I’m still busy perusing the chess.com report.

  29. They are giving Red Bull time to sneak the trophy back from Max and Jos!

  30. This sounds like buying time to think about what to do about a team in breach…

  31. Hot button topic, lots of opinion sharing and engagement, controversy, more questions to ask in the pressers, retweets.

    That’s what it’s all about.

  32. In my finance experience, I’d expect this to take even longer to pan out, and for there to be no willingness to accept interpretations are incorrect

  33. Whatever happens, I hope that if any breaches are found that they are not dealt with via a fine. To me this would make a nonsense of the budget cap. In fact I would go as far as suggesting that fines (at a team level) have no place in a budget cap based system at all, whether they be for this or other infringements unless they come out of the allotted budget.

  34. Reading between the lines….

    We think that there might be a breach or two but the teams concerned have legal and accounting experts that are more highly paid than ours so we can’t be certain if we’re right or not.

    Next week we’ll hear that all the “issues” in dispute have been resolved and everyone is under the cap.

    Great bit of drama for DTS and web sites but nothing will come of it because all the teams are honest and forthright and wouldn’t consider any shenanigans at all would they.

  35. This is all NUTS. What a waste of time and energy.
    Just for the record, I only read the first 20 posts or so. Then they all looked the same.
    By the way, the answer is ……… 42.

  36. This is what you’d expect if you go into bookmaking discussions. The 1st year will set some precdents but then the 2nd year is almost over already.

  37. Well, remembering how the vital tests of enforcing technical regulations regarding fuel injection, and enforcing the rules for restarting a race after a safety car worked out, I’d estimate major breaches of the rules will be resolved behind closed doors and without admitting one or more teams did anything wrong.

  38. F1 or Formula 1 is a car racing competition! If FIA takes Max Verstappen world title from 2021 and give this title to Lewis Hamilton, will be best that in the future, starting from 2023, FIA to announce the winner of drivers and teams titles before the first race of 2023! Michael Massey worlds to Toto Wolfs was: this is motor racing or AUTORENEN in Germany! I think Max Verstappen 2021 title was won on the track! PS: if Lewis Hamilton had won the title in 2021 on the track and somehow FIA had decided that the world title most go to Max Verstappen my opinion is the same! The driver who won the title on the track is the F1 world champion! PSG and Manchester City broke the financial rules at fooball about the transfer and salary budgets but nobody never toke away the titles won by these football teams!

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